Holly,Jesus didn't come to set up an organization. There was already one in place, and His followers were considered apostates from that organization. He came to give each and every one the ability to have a one on one relationship with God....through Him.
It's not about religion, but a relationship. When you stand before your maker you will stand as an individual, not a group. No hiding behind the skirts of any organization. If you have Christ, He stands with you, and you are not alone. It is His sacrifice that covers you. It is through Him that you have salvation. No organization can give that to you, and no organization can take that away from you.
Following men gets you nowhere. They don't have all the answers, and even if they did it wouldn't matter. God isn't going to give you a pop quiz to determine if you have salvation. He isn't impressed by what we know or think we know.
Coffee
The Leological One
JoinedPosts by The Leological One
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97
In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........
by holly inand then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
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The Leological One
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97
In the last days there will be a witness to all the inhabited earth........
by holly inand then the end will come.. something like that!!.
so, for those who believe the bible, who are these people and what scripture would back that?.
holly
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The Leological One
In the bible at Hebrews 10: 24 we are told not to forsake the gathering of ourselves together. That's pretty hard to do without being organized.
It's probably already been mentioned, but jic, I'd ask what an organization is in this context. Is it people just gathering together with one purpose? Can't that be done by Kiss (rock band) fans anywhere even if they aren't a member of an officially licenesed Kiss club? The body of Christ/the church, IMO, is the sum of all sincere Christians who have accepted Jesus' sacrifice and strive to live by His words and example. Otherwise, what's to constitute the JW organization as being the one true church vs. any other group that calls themselves a church. If we go into details, having things organized a certain way doesn't automatically equate to being such.
here are many organized churches. I'd hope the one true church would show more of Jesus' example of loving others than what my JW has exeperienced as well as probably most others on this board has experienced, and I'd hope the one true church could stand up to the self-scrutiny to the point it doesn't have fear of people looking into its own history and problems. Nothing personal with you here or anything... just with the WT.
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I debated with my "devout" JW mom and her JW elders for 5 hours
by booker-t inas most of you know by now i have told you that my mom has been a "devout" jw for over 40 years and i can't get her to budge.
well the last time we debated she left me totally confused and in a daze.
i did some fast research and this past sunday we had a free-for-all debate that lasted 5 hours.
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The Leological One
Originally by NeoMadman:
If the WTS is a prophet, then its record amply demonstrates that it is a false prophet.
If it merely "acts as a prophet" (whatever that means), then we must reasonably conclude from its record that it acts as a false prophet, not as a prophet of God.
Furthermore, if the organization merely "acts as a prophet" and is not actually a prophet, then it has no claim to the authority it assumes as one who actually professes to speak for God. If all it is offering is its own human opinions, then it has no right to expect those opinions to be received as anything other than what they are - fallible human ideas with no more authority behind them than anyone else's opinions.
+ 1 or more Kabillion~! Wish you coulda' had a more even scenario; that whole setup was lame to begin with, and it's strange to think your mother and those elders don't reflect at some point afterwards wondering, "Was that not diarreah that just came outta' my mouth~?!"
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I debated with my "devout" JW mom and her JW elders for 5 hours
by booker-t inas most of you know by now i have told you that my mom has been a "devout" jw for over 40 years and i can't get her to budge.
well the last time we debated she left me totally confused and in a daze.
i did some fast research and this past sunday we had a free-for-all debate that lasted 5 hours.
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The Leological One
originally by Buster:
"My dad, an excellent salesman, used to say, "If you can't dazzle 'em with brillinace, baffle 'em with bullsh!t." It sounds like they gave you quite the runaround."
Hey; I'll use that in my "sig" for my moniker at the harmony-central.com musician's forums~!
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Watchtower Aug. 15, 1968 says to ignore Jesus about tthe time of the end..
by AloneinOh intalking about 1975 and the push by the society got me to looking at some older quotes.
this one here really bugged me and still pisses me off when i read it.
in this instance they are telling you to forget about jesus and listen to the society.
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The Leological One
"One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man's existance will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt.24:34) This is, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that "concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the son, but only the father." (Matt 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the "day and hour"!
Yep; it's another out of many examples of the WT keeping Jesus as low as possible on the totem pole to make its own views seem higher in comparison.
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Watchtower Aug. 15, 1968 says to ignore Jesus about tthe time of the end..
by AloneinOh intalking about 1975 and the push by the society got me to looking at some older quotes.
this one here really bugged me and still pisses me off when i read it.
in this instance they are telling you to forget about jesus and listen to the society.
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The Leological One
Will Power,
"They are encouraging the feeling of REVENGE
all those worldly opposers getting their just reward - A Violent Death !!!
and they look down on those spending the price of a theatre ticket to watch violence. They spend their whole life for that ticket to paradise!!
"
Amen~!
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I found a big ol' fat lie again in there!
by gumby insome big fat liar made sumthin up again!
looky here what i went and found in the bible!
remember that little dove that desended down on jesus right after he was baptised by john?
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The Leological One
Hi,
I've not looked at this thread since almost its beginning and so may not be presenting anything new, but here's a link (or address to c/p if it doesn't link automatically) to info that seems to explain the wedding/wilderness scenario:
http://www.apologeticspress.org/abdiscr/abdiscr89.html
I've spent a lot of time debating on other forums about various things and admittedly don't have all the time I used to and got tired of people just ignoring a thread if they may've felt beaten and then getting barraged with dozens of posts for each single one I could put out and rarely ever being convinced by those I've debated with or felt I convinced any of them about anything -- lots of set minds. ;p
I like getting along with everyone I can and often find I relate with athiests and agnostics on a lot of other levels and so am just happy with that.
Peace,
Leonard -
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Have many become atheists who've left the Watchtower?
by The Leological One inthought i've never been a jw, my wife is, and she was df'd a couple months ago when we got married (we were together a short while before getting married).
sometimes it seems she still tries to defend jw doctrines... others, it seems she's about ready to accept the idea of some other views (protestant), and yet i've wondered at times when she says she doesn't know what to believe if she's about ready to forget religion altogether.
i'd prefer she keeps her faith in god but seek her understanding more from the bible than just from other people's doctrines -- esp.
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The Leological One
Euph and all,
Thanks for the replies, and I wish the best for all of you.
Leonard
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Have many become atheists who've left the Watchtower?
by The Leological One inthought i've never been a jw, my wife is, and she was df'd a couple months ago when we got married (we were together a short while before getting married).
sometimes it seems she still tries to defend jw doctrines... others, it seems she's about ready to accept the idea of some other views (protestant), and yet i've wondered at times when she says she doesn't know what to believe if she's about ready to forget religion altogether.
i'd prefer she keeps her faith in god but seek her understanding more from the bible than just from other people's doctrines -- esp.
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The Leological One
Losing family and friends can be a tough thing to swallow and keep one in. Quite a controlling situation; :(
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Have many become atheists who've left the Watchtower?
by The Leological One inthought i've never been a jw, my wife is, and she was df'd a couple months ago when we got married (we were together a short while before getting married).
sometimes it seems she still tries to defend jw doctrines... others, it seems she's about ready to accept the idea of some other views (protestant), and yet i've wondered at times when she says she doesn't know what to believe if she's about ready to forget religion altogether.
i'd prefer she keeps her faith in god but seek her understanding more from the bible than just from other people's doctrines -- esp.
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The Leological One
[quote][i]Hope your wife comes to grips with her faith. JW's "faith" is more based on fear than love. Fear of losing your "standing" in the congregation, fear of alienating your friends because they view you as a "doubter", and even fear of being DF'd for apostasy. Conformance is the order of the day. Real faith isn't based on fear. Have her investigate "grace". My wife has gained much comfort from learning about it.[/i][/b] I can see where fear is a prime mover in the organization; very sad. I appreciate your response and am glad to hear your wife's doing better now with her own search, too! Leonard